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Episode 12 Transcript

Interview with Transgender Athlete Erin Parisi of TranSending 7

Erin Everett:
Hey, everybody, welcome back to Exclusively Inclusive. I’m your host, Erin Everett, nurse practitioner. On today’s show, we’ll be interviewing a very special guest, Erin Parisi. Erin was assigned male at birth and has undergone her female transition. She’s an advocate for all trans people, but particularly athletes.

Erin Everett:
During her transition, Erin was afraid that she would have to give up her passion and love of the outdoors. Not only did she continue to be driven, but she turned that fear into motivation, and has now made it her mission to climb all the Seven Summits of the world in order to bring awareness to trans right and trans athletes.

Erin Everett:
Erin founded the nonprofit organization, TranSending. Through this, she has been able to continue her mission and gain success. Erin is here today to discuss some personal and intimate details of her transition, and also further explain what TranSending is and why it is so, so important. Erin, go ahead and introduce yourself.

Erin Parisi:
Hi, Erin. My name is Erin Parisi. I use she/hers pronouns. I live in Colorado and enjoy the mountains. And basically, I came out as trans about five years ago.

Erin Everett:
Awesome. So, when you say you came out as trans, is that when you started your social or medical transition?

Erin Parisi:
That is a little bit of both. I was living pretty deeply in denial at the time, so I had kind of built up a lot of my life kind of that denial. I was living at my office and my family life and everything else, basically, my social life all as male. I was pronounced male at birth. That’s just the life that I tried to build around, unfortunately, no matter how many clues I had over the years.

Erin Parisi:
It was never right. So, five years ago, I announced to my ex wife at the time that I couldn’t necessarily continue the way I was going. I figured there’s probably a lot of different ways I could begin to transition or manifest myself. But ultimately, my marriage didn’t work out and I began medical and social transition about the same time.

Erin Everett:
Well, good for you. It’s really hard, and I think your story is not unlike others as far as deciding to live your truth. For a lot of people that I’ve interacted with, it’s something that… They’re suppressed, and then it gets to a point where they can’t do that anymore.

Erin Everett:
And unfortunately, as you stated, transition can come with a lot of sacrifices. But it’s really brave and courageous for you to come out and live your truth, and I think a lot of people will find your story inspirational.

Erin Parisi:
Thank you.

Erin Everett:
Yeah, of course. How old were you when you first announced and decided to live your truth?

Erin Parisi:
I think I was in my late 30s. I was about 38. From the time I was in my teenage years, I was always like, it’s too late to transition. But I think I came out when I was ready, like a lot of other people, and that was when I was 38.

Erin Everett:
Yeah, that’s awesome. And that actually gives a lot of hope for a lot of people and a lot of patients that I interact with who are often wondering, is it too late to live my truth? And no, it’s never too late. So, that is really cool. And so, just to tell the listeners a little a bit more about yourself outside of your transition, what kind of organizations are you part of? And what kind of things do you like to enjoy in your free time?

Erin Parisi:
Yeah. So, I moved to Colorado from upstate New York about 20 years ago in all intention to kind of disappear and transition, but also kind of get away from my family and create the space that I needed to transition, and that was in the late ’90s.

Erin Parisi:
What drew me to Colorado was that I’m an outdoor athlete, a mountain biker, a back country skier. And basically, all things mountain and trail related are just kind of right in my general wheelhouse. So, I came to Colorado to again, kind of restart socially, which took me still another 15 years. But I’m here in Colorado as an outdoor athlete, so yeah, that’s where I spend my time.

Erin Everett:
Excellent. What would you say is one interesting fact or a fun fact about you that maybe not everybody knows.

Erin Parisi:
Well, I have taken on, in the last few years, the goal become the first trans person to climb the Seven Summits, which is basically climbing to the highest point in every continent. So, I always love to travel and adventure travel, and I was loved mountaineering. And these are things I thought would be threatened as I transitioned.

Erin Parisi:
So, as time went on, and I got more comfortable with my transition, I began the sports again and I began to travel again. And here I am climbing the highest point on every continent with the trans flag just to say I’m proud of who I am and I’m going to stand wherever I can and say it.

Erin Everett:
That’s amazing. I mean, I can’t even imagine being able to do something like that, let alone with your story and your bravery to speak out your truth. So, so far, how many summits have you climbed?

Erin Parisi:
I climbed four in the 12-month period that ended actually today. I hit the summit of Aconcagua last year today. And in the 12 months leading up to that, climb up the highest point in South America to 23,000 feet. I climbed four of the world’s Seven Summits. So we did Australia. That’s where I started. I went to Kilimanjaro in Africa after that. Then climbed in Russia on Mount Elbrus. And then last year we finished the 12 months off with Aconcagua in Argentina.

Erin Everett:
Wow. That is a lot of climbing in 12 months.

Erin Parisi:
And a lot of traveling.

Erin Everett:
A lot of traveling. That part is probably a lot of fun too. I mean, I’m sure the climbing is fun too, but a lot of hard work. How do you prepare for that?

Erin Parisi:
As far as my life goes, I mean, it’s actually the travel and the preparing is the things that scared me the most in coming out. I spent a lot of time in the gym. I spent a lot of time in the outdoors, which is the outdoors community seems often to be very hyper gendered. And those are the spaces that were scary to me. And then the travel aspect of it was also scary: airports, bathrooms, sitting on planes for long periods of time next to strangers.

Erin Parisi:
Those things were definitely scary, and all of that takes a different amount of preparation. So, as far as physically, I think that’s what you’re getting at. I’m in the gym or outdoors training typically six days a week. I do a lot of high intensity interval training, and I do a lot of outdoor like carrying a lot of weight and hiking uphill kind of stuff.

Erin Everett:
Wow, that’s super cool. I mean, yeah, physically, of course preparation. But I’m really glad that you highlighted all the other struggles that come along with it because I think a lot of people take that for granted when they’re traveling about. Things they don’t have to think about, like you mentioned, airport bathrooms and encountering a very gendered world with the athletic stuff that you like to do.

Erin Everett:
I take care of a lot of people who are going through their transition, and they’re all at different stages. But I definitely have a lot of trans female athletes who often have the same concerns and worry about having to sacrifice their athleticism, or also just being discriminated against because they’ve been told that they’re at a greater advantage than a cisgendered female.

Erin Everett:
Reading about you and poking around online, I noticed that you made point to say that you’ve had your testosterone suppressed and that you’ve actually submitted documented evidence of that before. Is that something that you came up with on your own or that people made you do? And do you have any advice for other people going through that?

Erin Parisi:
No. That’s not something I was made to do. That’s something that I took on myself for a number of reasons. First off, I will say that I don’t think that the gateway into sports should be kept based on all of these qualifications and everything else that people are coming up with. It seems like everybody wants to come up with a rule to police trans bodies in sports, and I think that it all comes down to this idea of unfair advantage.

Erin Parisi:
We can talk about competitive sports and leveling the playing field and making sure that everybody has a chance to play. But I think that the benefits of sports should be open to everyone, regardless of their gender identification. So, non competitive sports and participation should be open.

Erin Parisi:
I think that I really wanted to show people, in my story, kind of what happens to my body and how I need to train and everything else, given the fact that I have been testosterone suppressed for several years now and that my body isn’t very different from how I was as an athlete before I transitioned.

Erin Parisi:
So, this was a way for me to say my body has changed, and this is what I’m going through to become an athlete and kind of follow those guidelines. The lessons of sports I think should be open to everyone universally, and I think that’s it’s important for our allies to see that there are avenues of inclusion that do level playing field for competitive sports.

Erin Everett:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s a really valid point, that by you submitting proof of that is not necessarily your suggestion that this should be a requirement. Because there’s a lot of cisgendered females with elevated levels of testosterone for other medical conditions and we’re not checking those either.

Erin Everett:
So, to your point, it should just be open. And I think that’s probably the best solution. But I really loved the fact that you went out there and said, listen, this is me, this is who I am. This is what I’m up against. And no, I’m not at an unfair advantage.

Erin Parisi:
Yeah. Some of the greatest athletes that I work out with going back 20 years, I mean 15 years before my transition, are female athletes. They were better than me before, they’re better than me now, and they are just more committed, more intense as athletes.

Erin Parisi:
Some of the mountain biking females, the rock climbing females, especially that I’m working out and training with, are absolutely phenomenal athletes. So, to say that I have some advantage over them is ridiculous because… It’s detracting from cisgender female athletes to say that I somehow can have an advantage.

Erin Parisi:
Now, also in my sport, everybody likes to point out, they say, “Well, muscle mass or bone mass.” And it’s like, well, nobody wants extra muscle mass or bone mass to carry up a very tall mountain very slowly. So, I don’t understand sometimes.

Erin Parisi:
The only two things people point back to as an advantage at times that I maybe have is that I have additional bone mass, which adds no strength to my body, or they say muscle mass, which is not productive. I don’t think I’ve lost so much strength. All those factors make it harder for me to compete, not easier.

Erin Everett:
Right. Absolutely. And actually, from a medical standpoint, once trans women start their transition and we start suppressing the testosterone, muscle mass decreases. And actually, over time, there’s been some research to show through dexa scans, which is images of the bone mineral density. The bone mineral density changes occur too. So, both of those arguments might even be valid for them either.

Erin Parisi:
Right. There’s plenty more research to be done. And I think that right now, 40 years after the Renee Richards case in courts, where U.S. tennis basically said that an army of male athletes would show up and that never happened. I mean, we have plenty of evidence to show that trans women are not competing in sports, and very little evidence to show that we are.

Erin Parisi:
And every time somebody that is a trans female athlete shows up, everybody makes a big deal out of it, and it’s like, no. The lessons that we’re learning and the amount of people who are learning these lessons are far greater than, yes, the few people that over the decades we’ve been competing have actually won. I mean, a handful have won and it’s a big deal every time from those that attack us.

Erin Everett:
Right. Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And so, from that, too, when we’re talking about your transition and being an athlete and things like that, when you decided to medically and socially transition, what kind of steps did you take first to also begin the transition, but ensure that you were able to participate in the things that you enjoyed doing?

Erin Parisi:
Well, I don’t think that I took steps to ensure that I could still enjoy the things that I enjoyed doing. I’ve fully made the choice to transition understanding that I would probably have to sacrifice many of those things because of the communities and kind of the bullies that gate keep and keep trans people out of those places.

Erin Parisi:
I made the decision to transition understanding that there would be sacrifices. When I did that, I had already been in therapy on and off for 20 or 25 years, I mean, since I was in my early teens. But when I finally made the choice to transition after six, seven, eight months of intensive gender-based therapy, I came out and then I started amassing small groups of allies, and a lot of them were people that I… They were what I’d like to call my easy victories, right?

Erin Parisi:
I looked at the people that I thought were probably the easiest people. And then I approached them not with a story of negative, that I was nervous and apprehensive. I looked at it very much as a celebration. I said, “I’m coming out, and I’m going to share with you something that I’ve been hiding my whole life and I feel comfortable enough to share with you that I have this whole side of me I hadn’t been able to share and you’re one of the first people I’m not going to talk about that with.”

Erin Parisi:
And in doing that, I picked up 10 or 20 quick allies that I trusted, that were affirmative. And then after another few months of that and talking to these people that I trusted and getting their advice and hearing from them, I went out and found a doctor who prescribed hormones and I delved into that and then I started talking more with different doctors.

Erin Parisi:
And we’ve been working on kind of medical transition kind of slowly as time goes on to see where my dysphoria lies and how I alleviate that dysphoria and at what level I’m comfortable.

Erin Everett:
Awesome. And so, did you find it difficult to find somebody in your area that specialized in hormone replacement therapy?

Erin Parisi:
I almost found that it was… Yeah, it is hard because doctors are still not easy for trans people to talk to often. And a lot of us have built up this narrative within us that we can’t talk to anyone and we have to die with this secret.

Erin Parisi:
And we’ve got so much invested in this false narrative that society has asked us to portray and that we’re portraying for our families and our friends and our jobs, that even doctors are hard to talk to, and you don’t you don’t know until you speak up. So, my therapist recommended a doctor, who I went to, and he treated on informed consent. So I went in there-

Erin Everett:
That’s awesome.

Erin Parisi:
Yeah. I signed all the paperwork. Now, the problem with that approach was that I went into a clinic that didn’t have a medical history with me, and I signed informed consent paperwork and started hormones, but really didn’t have a plan for follow up care, or a strategy for follow up care.

Erin Parisi:
So, there’s blood testing and monitoring that I think should have been done following that, that this doctor that was going on informed consent was kind of saying, “Hey, you still have to figure this out.” And that’s where I struggled, was finding that next person to take this care and really treat me kind of in a life cycle, if you will, of starting to take the drugs.

Erin Parisi:
And then testing every few months to make sure my levels were right, and I wasn’t overdoing it, and I wasn’t under doing it. And I think that that’s kind of where laws that are aimed at doctors become detrimental; when people start looking for care in places where either they’re traveling long distances for care, or they’re afraid to talk to their doctors.

Erin Parisi:
You’re kind of taking that option away from people. So, all these state bills that are kind of coming into place are really limiting people’s ability to speak to their doctor about a challenge that they’re having and limit their doctors ability to treat them in a way that’s safe and effective over time.

Erin Everett:
Yeah. And I think the other problem too is lack of training for health care providers. Because what you’re talking about, I see a lot. And I get a lot of patients coming across state borders to come and see me because we do, at our clinic, offer primary care along with HRT.

Erin Everett:
And sometimes patients do come in and they just want me to take care of their hormones. And I’ll do whatever. But I do say with a disclaimer, “Look, it’s really hard for me not to see the whole person. So, I do plan on taking care of the whole person, unless you tell me you have a primary care provider who is meeting your other medical needs.”

Erin Everett:
But I find that a lot of it has to do with lack of training with health care providers. Some people who do come with established primary care providers will say, “Well, my doctor is great, but they just didn’t feel comfortable prescribing my hormones.”

Erin Everett:
And so, that’s something that me and some other colleagues are trying to work really hard on to get more training programs implemented in universities and such where primary care providers feel more comfortable delivering HRT in that setting, which obviously would be epic for the trans community.

Erin Parisi:
Yeah, absolutely. Now, Denver, I will say, is phenomenal. We do have a few primary care doctors. I found one. I went in, I got a physical. I didn’t tell her I was trans originally. I met up with her five years ago right before I came out. And I knew that she had a reputation for treating trans patients.

Erin Parisi:
And then she had spent time with another doctor who had kind of forged Denver’s trans health care. So, once I got away from that doctor that was just doing informed consent, I did find somebody who was very well recognized in the area as a trans medical expert.

Erin Parisi:
And then there’s another doctor very close to my house that specializes in it. Denver now also is doing more trans related surgeries at Denver Health. So, we are a center that does a lot of procedures that you can’t get around the country or are only offered in limited places.

Erin Parisi:
So, Denver is having more resources and we have a good community performing those resources. But you’re right. There were several times when I walked into an emergency room, I happen to have a couple of emergency problems that were unrelated to me being trans.

Erin Parisi:
And the doctors that I had to come out to in those emergency care weren’t ready for a trans patient. I was lucky that my primary care, when I came out, she said, “Well, why didn’t you tell me when you first came in two weeks ago and got a physical.” And I was like, “Well, I was trying to figure it out and see if I felt safe.”

Erin Parisi:
And she said, “Half of my patients are trans. I’ve been doing this for decades.” Immediately, she made me feel comfortable. But the doctors in the emergency care was the exact opposite. They didn’t properly gender me. They didn’t understand my use of hormones. And we’re talking about completely unrelated challenges.

Erin Parisi:
The hospital refused to change my name, even though the billing came while I was in the name change process. And after I had legally changed in Colorado, they just ignored when I would send the paperwork in and say, “Hey, I’m not taking bill anymore, so change my name on my record please.” And they wouldn’t do it. There were a lot of places where I think the emergency health care system and the emergent providers could have been better and they weren’t.

Erin Everett:
Yeah. The system let you down, and I’m sorry for that. And it happens way too much. And so, us allies are trying to work hard to expand knowledge in that area. So, hopefully, we’ll see some major changes in the coming years.

Erin Everett:
Hey, everyone, I have a quick favor to ask. If you wouldn’t mind taking a moment and just clicking the subscribe button on whichever platform you use to listen to my show, that would be wonderful. Not only does it allow you to get notified every time I publish an episode, but it also helps with my ratings and reviews, which what that means in podcast world is that I’m able to climb up in the rating scale and reach other listeners.

Erin Everett:
The whole reason why I started this show is to access people who need the information. So, please just go ahead and click subscribe, then we can all be happy and continue to listen to this good quality free information. Thank you so much. When you originally reached out to me, we had been talking about facial feminization surgery. Did you want to tell us a little bit more about your experience with that?

Erin Parisi:
Sure. So, I think everyone’s different and how we find comfort in our souls is different. When I came out as trans, or when I let the world know I was trans and reached out, I knew that my plan would involve facial feminization surgery.

Erin Parisi:
wasn’t comfortable with the way that my face had looked. So, very early on in my transition, I had facial feminization procedures with Dr. Toby Meltzer in Scottsdale, Arizona, and it was again, a procedure I had very early on. So, I have been through that.

Erin Everett:
And so, for those who aren’t really familiar with facial feminization surgery, what kind of options did Dr. Meltzer offer you as far as feminization options? Is it the same for everybody or they’re things that you can do that are different?

Erin Parisi:
No. I got four opinions from four different doctors. Gosh, I probably got five opinions from four doctors. But I met Dr. Meltzer at Gender Odyssey in Seattle. It was a few months after I came out. I was still in the divorce process. And he was open, he was very affirming.

Erin Parisi:
For me, as a person, he said, “You don’t need to do a lot. Honestly, the way you look, you need to grow your hair out.” So, he didn’t even go in really selling a lot of surgery to me. But he said… In that quick meeting, I had set up this 15 minutes.

Erin Parisi:
He seeing prospective patients at Gender Odyssey for 15 minutes at the convention center. He had a meeting room set aside. And he recommended… He does all sorts of different procedures, full body, everywhere from your hairline down to as low as you want to go.

Erin Parisi:
And there are multiple procedures that he’ll do starting from hairline advancement to forehead contouring to kind of give you a more subtle, less masculine forehead and brow ridge, cheek implants, rhinoplasty, jawline work, there’s Adam’s apple shaving. Those are all procedures, I would say knocking above that are facial feminization procedures. So, I had some combination of those procedures.

Erin Everett:
That’s awesome. And what was the recovery like from that?

Erin Parisi:
So, those procedures I named, Dr. Meltzer and I decided to do… We did the forehead embossing or reduction. We did a mid face lift, which kind of pulled my eyes slightly made them a little bit more almond shaped. Cheek implants, rhinoplasty and a chin reduction. The recovery was difficult. It was definitely exciting because it was very much…

Erin Parisi:
It was exciting because it was this moment in my life that I had waited for. I’d watched Dr. Meltzer’s work online and had seen his clinic and seen him. And to get to Scottsdale and touch his building was so exciting for me. In addition to that, I came out that night on social media. Like I said, I had surrounded myself with close family and friends and allies.

Erin Parisi:
But I knew that rumors were starting to circulate about what was going on with me because I had kind of insulated myself behind this wall of allies. And I came out at about midnight the day of surgery, and then at 5:30 in the morning I reported for anesthesia.

Erin Parisi:
So, I woke up at 5:30 and some of my East Coast friends had seen the post on Facebook and were emailing me very supportive. These were people I went to high school with. People from upstate New York here I was a couple of time zones away at 5:30 in the morning, but they were a few hours ahead and had time to absorb the news.

Erin Parisi:
And they were sending me these like, “We’re behind you 100%.” So that felt really good going into surgery. I had a lot of positive wave to kind of ride in there. I woke up and I spent three days in the hospital, my face fully wrapped in gauze and everything else. My eyes nearly swole and shut, and lots of swelling and bruising.

Erin Parisi:
But then within 10 days or so, Dr. Meltzer released me from Arizona. It was about I think two or three days early that final clearance to leave. And my parents decided that they didn’t want me to come back to Denver. They wanted me to be kind of closer to family.

Erin Parisi:
So, I went to San Diego and I spent another week or two with my step mother and father. And the immediate aftermath of the surgery, the stitches, over the course of a week or two kind of slowly came out and dissolved, and some of them had to be removed.

Erin Parisi:
And then as time went on, it was interesting to watch. The nose change, the cheeks changed and my hair grew longer. I always said I would transition as fast as my hair would grow. And the facial feminization, it’s a big difference.

Erin Parisi:
Once the swelling goes away and once the bruising goes away, you look and you’re like, wow, it’s different. But then it really does take… It’s incredible. It takes another year, a year and a half for everything to kind of form into place and your body to kind of soften around some of the things that were changed and…

Erin Everett:
Kind of grow into itself.

Erin Parisi:
Yeah, and your brain to adjust to what happens there. And really, over that time, it was very calming and it just felt so good to watch day by day me see myself and my features kind of change to match my inside. So, it was a physical healing, intensive the first month or two. And then from months three to like months 12 or 15, it was this like my brain and my body kind of slowly getting used to each other again and recognizing each other as not being so polarized.

Erin Everett:
Would you describe that as maybe the feelings that people refer to as the gender euphoria?

Erin Parisi:
I would say it was fairly euphoric. Gender dysphoria is kind of a sneaky little monster to a lot of us. Just when we think we’ve got it deep, it’s still there. And then other times, like you said, the gender euphoria, you’re like, wow, I did something. I made a difference. I don’t really relate to the term gender euphoria. I understand it and I see people that have it and I celebrate that idea.

Erin Parisi:
For me, it’s more the sense of peace and comfort that came from the hormones and this particular facial feminization and the kind of empowerment that it gave my brain and my body to be similar. But I don’t know euphoria, I want to feel like it was this big celebration. And to me, it was more of a private piece that I got from it. And maybe that’s just my definition of euphoria needs to change.

Erin Everett:
Well, I think a lot of people experience that differently. Patients describe it to me as just that… Kind of the way that you described it, was just finally the feeling that everything was in sync and kind of their vision was finally coming true.

Erin Parisi:
I think that you start to feel… Yeah, a lot of the energy… Let’s say that all the energy it takes to run and hide and be afraid of yourself is greater than the good that we create. And if we could take that energy that we spent in hiding and in fear of the world as trans people and we could put it to good use, what could we do with that energy?

Erin Parisi:
And the facial feminization surgery was certainly very key in taking some of that nervous energy I had in the world and quelling it so that I could take that energy and positively use it to something other than just being afraid and hating kind of the disconnect between my brain and my body.

Erin Everett:
That’s amazing.

Erin Parisi:
The only thing I would add about facial feminization is that you don’t need facial feminization to be a woman. You don’t need a facial feminization or a surgery to… I mean, even if you’ve done nothing and you’re trans, you are a woman. You don’t need it to validate yourself.

Erin Parisi:
You don’t need it to live up to the world’s expectations or anything else. It really is a matter of, what makes you feel comfortable? That’s a choice that is your agency and no one else’s. So I’d say do it if it’s something that makes you feel better and something that is available to you.

Erin Parisi:
But under no circumstance should you feel pressured to do it or feel like if you don’t have the resources or can’t do it for several other reasons, you’re not any less of a woman and you’re not any less valid.

Erin Everett:
That is really inspirational is to hear you talk about it because I know that, for a lot of people listening and for a lot of people that I encounter on a daily basis, that are living in fear. That are going to tune in and listen to you speak about your transition and who will finally have the courage and bravery to step out of their box and live their truth as well. So, I really appreciate you sharing all those intimate details because I’m sure it’s not easy to do.

Erin Parisi:
It’s getting easier and it’s gotten easier. When I first came out, I kind of viewed transition as running from one closet that I was in, which was hiding in a non authentic forum, and to running across a room and getting into another closet where I was hiding, which would be kind of that I think detrimental idea that we should be passable.

Erin Parisi:
And nobody kind of wanted to be in that middle space where you’re visible and you can be proud of yourself. And I found that between those two closets, like really, there’s this big open room that’s full of sunshine and light and you shouldn’t have to be forced into a passing closet, nor a hiding closet. We should be celebrated along the whole journey.

Erin Everett:
Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And I think it’s really important that you emphasize that about passing because so many people are hyper focused on that, and a lot of it has to do with the transphobia that goes on, right?

Erin Everett:
So, if they’re passing, that they don’t have to get called out. And some people just want to live themselves and they don’t necessarily want to have to explain themselves to everybody, which I totally understand. But to your point, there is that special place where you’re just celebrating who you are. Wow. I’m sure it can be quite scary.

Erin Parisi:
And you’re absolutely right. Transphobia dictates a lot of this passing-

Erin Everett:
The in-between space.

Erin Parisi:
But the in-between space, if you can embrace who you are in there, I think passing or the idea of not passing so much but comfort anyways. You’ll be a lot more comfortable I think in that in-between space, even if that’s not where ultimately your transition is what you want or where you want it to take you.

Erin Parisi:
But I don’t think that there’s any shame in being a trans person. I feared myself, I feared the world before I came out. And again, it was always about how little time can I spend in that bright, scary place in the middle of these two closets?

Erin Parisi:
And when I got into it, I said, there’s benefit and I could see people that were proud to stand in that space and in that light and that’s really where my Seven Summits goal came from, was I shouldn’t have to hide in the shadows. I shouldn’t have to hide in the closet. I should go where there is no place to hide and where there are no shadows, and where is that? That’s the highest point in every continent. That’s the point where I have no shadows to hide behind, nor can I be relegated to them.

Erin Everett:
That’s super cool. I just love that. What Summit is next on your list?

Erin Parisi:
So, next we are going to do Denali. I am going out to Denali for this year’s pride, so I’ll be on the mountain starting in late May, but we don’t summit until… My summit days are early June. So, Denali is the next summit, and we hope to, for my ascent to happen around June sixth, which is the first woman to ascend was Barbara Washburn in the ’40s, I believe. So, I’m hoping that on the same day, or if not, around it, and also for the 51st anniversary I’ll be up there summiting.

Erin Everett:
Wow. That’s so cool.

Erin Parisi:
Yeah. And hopefully, trans people have a good victory to celebrate from the Supreme Court decision around that same time. So, I’ll be up there with so much going on in the world of trans rights and mountaineering history. It’s really going to be a great time.

Erin Everett:
Yeah. That is seriously amazing and so symbolic, and what a great way to tie all those things together.

Erin Parisi:
Yeah, it’s exciting. I’m happy every day I have a chance to climb and to be seen. And when things just come together and I can live in a mountaineering team and feel good about myself and continue to explore the world, I just know I did the right thing. And this Denali expedition hopefully will just continue to reinforce that narrative.

Erin Everett:
Yeah. So, when do you plan on doing Mount Everest? Are you keeping that one for last?

Erin Parisi:
We intended to keep it for last. Everest is typically climbed about the same time as Denali, between the beginning of May or late April. Denali is typically not claimed in April. But Everest, a lot of expeditions start in late April, and pretty much everything’s wrapped up in the mountain by early June. And on Denali, everything’s kind of wrapped up by July.

Erin Parisi:
So, this year it wouldn’t have been possible. They say that Denali and Everest are about equally as difficult. Everest is with oxygen and you have porters and there’s more logistical support. In Denali, you’re out there by yourself, basically carrying everything you need and living on the mountain for two weeks without any sort of infrastructure, whereas Everest has base camp and lots of other resources right on the side of the mountain.

Erin Parisi:
So, Everest is definitely a goal. We are looking for a history of trans people that have been on the mountain. Edmund Hillary had somebody who came out as trans in the ’60s after his expedition in the early ’50s. And there’s another couple of stories about trans people that didn’t quite make it to the Summit.

Erin Parisi:
But there is actually a little bit of trans history on Everest and we’re excited to actually get a known and visible trans person to the summit of that mountain. Because for all the summits we’ve seen on Everest, there are far too few trans stories going on up there.

Erin Everett:
Absolutely. Wow, that is crazy cool. I can’t wait to follow your journey and to see you waving that flag at the top of each summit. It’s going to be amazing.

Erin Parisi:
It was amazing on Aconcagua when I thought about it. It was the South American climbing season, which was the winter in North America and in the Himalayas. The only mountains that are taller than the mountain I was on in South America are in the Himalayas, and very few winter ascents are attempted on those peaks.

Erin Parisi:
On this day, last year, when I was on the top of Aconcagua, there’s a very good chance that that trans flag was the highest man made piece of art above the world. So, the trans flag was probably the thing that was flying highest, the highest flying flag on the planet when I had it up there last year. So, the chance to represent and to bring that flag up high and show those colors and show who I am is really something that I take a lot of pride in.

Erin Everett:
Oh, you’re giving me goosebumps. That’s so exciting. I’m seriously so excited to follow your journey. Through all of this, you’ve used your organization, TranSending, to kind of help not only raise awareness for trans athletes, but also help fund some of your journeys. Is that right?

Erin Parisi:
Yeah, that’s exactly correct. Early on in the journey, I had this mission to stay on the highest point and change the trans narrative, if you will, from kind of what I had seen when I was hiding so much, which was a lot of violence and suicide and underemployment and housing despair. All those things that we read about in the newspaper, and I really wanted to change it to something celebratory.

Erin Parisi:
So, I started this organization that was basically in place to celebrate positive trans narratives and support those stories in any way that we could logistically. I tried to talk to people in the outdoor industry and the entertainment industry and different industries that I thought would support the mission and had a voice to lend an ally ship to land, and I didn’t really get very far.

Erin Parisi:
So, I was able to climb the first four mountains basically on the support of grassroots efforts and fundraising for this small nonprofit that I kind of opened up just to support these positive narratives. And we climbed for mountains in a year based on people believing that we could change the narrative.

Erin Parisi:
Now, actually, we’re looking at some bigger sponsors have stepped in and I’m doing more photo shoots for brands and some bigger partners like REI and Narrow in particular, and Outdoor Research who have come in and said, you know what? The face of mountaineering can change. There is room for everybody, and here you go. So yeah, we’ve made a lot of progress on the nonprofit side.

Erin Parisi:
And we’ve actually gone from basically climbing these mountains on $10 and $20 and $30 support to having some media and some sponsors looking at what we’re doing. So, we operate a website called TranSending. It’s like TranSending without the C, so tran, T-R-A-N, and then sending because we send it, S-E-N-DI-N-G.org. Or TranSendingseven.org. They’re both of our websites.

Erin Parisi:
And we basically kind of keep the story running live all the time and kind of put any updates we have and we’re searching for new athletes. And basically, everything is continuing to be supported basically by people that believe in placing that trans person on the highest point proudly in each continent. So you can go there, you can donate there, and it all goes to nonprofit.

Erin Parisi:
At this point, we’re looking at different athletes. We’re looking at athletes to thru-hike in the United States to kind of prove the point that we’re everywhere and we’re also seeking a south pole expedition for a trans person. Again, seeking that to prove that we’ve just covered the worldwide. So, you can donate there, and really, the money goes 100% to support positive trans narrative in outdoor sports.

Erin Everett:
Well, that’s awesome. And I’m really excited for listeners to be able to follow your journey and hopefully donate to the cause. But also give inspiration for other people who are athletes and might be kind of afraid to come out and also have the same concerns that you had about having to put that aside. So, where’s the best place for them to actually watch your journey? Do you have an Instagram handle? Will you be posting videos or anything?

Erin Parisi:
Yeah. As time goes on, more content is being delivered. So, we are on TranSending. We try to post frequently. Again, with I think the mainstream media covering more of the negative narrative, we’ve taken an approach to speak more positively. So, you can find us on TranSending. Again, it’s TranSending without the C, T-R-A-N-S-I-N-D-I-N-G. So, we’re at TranSending 7. And that’s maintained by the TranSending organization, which I’m not on the board, but our communications manager, who’s my partner, does all the posting there and we’re definitely looking for stories to feature. So, if anybody wants to be featured on our website and kind of be part of this growing energy of creating pride in athletics, please send us a message and a picture or tag TranSending or hashtag TranSending without the seven, and we might find your story and maybe highlight it on our page. I, as an athlete, can be found at erinsends7 because I’m ascending the Seven Summits.

Erin Everett:
That’s awesome.

Erin Parisi:
So I don’t post nearly as much. Training and talking with community members and advocating and really working full-time, and it’s just everything that I’m doing kind of keeps me from posting too much. But I have a little bit more freedom as to what I can say versus what the organization can do and say and I do post on my account quite when I can.

Erin Parisi:
We put up videos every now and again and I try to put some stuff on YouTube. Again, erinsends7 is where you’ll find me. But I’m making sure that my journey is visible. On our web page, we’ve got lots of stories linked to media who’s followed my story or who’ve written about me or places where I’ve done interviews and talked about my missions.

Erin Parisi:
So, you can definitely go on to my website and click in the media page and you can see everything from Self Magazine asking me for PowerBar advice on how to power a big hike to me talking about what it was like for me to come out to my family and work through the challenges and successes that come with coming out to your family and actually finding support, rather than what a lot of us expect, which is not-

Erin Everett:
Right. Negativity.

Erin Parisi:
Negativity or shunning or something else. So, you can hear all of that and I have been privileged, I think. But in that part of my transition, I have found a lot of support. I think a lot of other people will too. I hate to say that I had this big story built up, but I did.

Erin Parisi:
And I kind of had written off so many of my family and friends and I came out they said, “Why would you fear me? You know that I’m a good person and you know that I support you, and I still do. But the fact that you thought that I would be this person that would let you go because you came out, that negatively… Like, why did you think that about me?”

Erin Parisi:
So, it’s amazing to have these friends and family that, A, support me, but then I have to go back and think to the days when I said I didn’t think that they would, and what did that mean? So, I’ve been privileged to have a lot of great support, and I have lost a few friends. But again, a big part of my story is that it’s been positive and I want to keep it positive.

Erin Everett:
Yeah. Well, good for you. I really appreciate you taking the time. I know you’re so busy with your training and you’re working and everything you have going on, so it really means a lot for you to come on and tell your story so that listeners can be inspired by it too, but also, take the time to donate to your cause. So I really appreciate it.

Erin Everett:
Thanks again for tuning in. I really hope you enjoyed listening to Erin Parisi as much as I did. Her story is just absolutely incredible. The mountains that she has climbed, not only literally, but figuratively, is amazing, and she’s an inspiration for a lot of people. If you have any questions, you can contact Erin Parisi through her listed contact information, or you can contact me at erin@exclusivelyinclusivepodcast.com. All right everybody, stay fearless and live your truth.